first of all to have a national conference of bishops meeting regularly and the united states conferences have been out of this world in role modeling proclaiming the word of god in their documents, beautiful stuff. but then locally having pastoral counseling, parish counselor, liturgj councils, all the ministry has to be collegial, the men built the in sides back, and religious women were the first to hear vatican ii, but then religious women that the their orders were early. some the priests dragged their feet. it was a hard cell for some priests, but by in large the people welcomed it as it was explained to them. as you said the church in that area, the old church as we might say was a very defined type of thing. so what i am thinking is i'm presuming that what i might presume to call power, clergy had to give up. how was that? >> if i may, i'm answering responding to your question, just with a little background. if you want to describe the change, the paradigm shift, the church before vatican ii was like a pyramid. the top was the pope, the bishops, had secretaries, people thought of